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	<title>Comments on: Battle of the Spin Machines: Coal vs. Nuclear</title>
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	<link>http://www.ideagrove.com/blog/2006/06/battle-of-the-spin-machines-coal-vs-nuclear.html</link>
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		<title>By: Ike</title>
		<link>http://www.ideagrove.com/blog/2006/06/battle-of-the-spin-machines-coal-vs-nuclear.html/comment-page-1#comment-2106</link>
		<dc:creator>Ike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 17:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ideagrove.com/weblog/?p=1212#comment-2106</guid>
		<description>And on that final point, sir, we can agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And on that final point, sir, we can agree.</p>
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		<title>By: SB</title>
		<link>http://www.ideagrove.com/blog/2006/06/battle-of-the-spin-machines-coal-vs-nuclear.html/comment-page-1#comment-2091</link>
		<dc:creator>SB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ideagrove.com/weblog/?p=1212#comment-2091</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;do I think that mankind has (or can) permanently upset the balance of the planet in a mere 300 years? No way&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We don&#039;t need 300 years. We can do it with the push of a button.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>do I think that mankind has (or can) permanently upset the balance of the planet in a mere 300 years? No way</i></p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need 300 years. We can do it with the push of a button.</p>
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		<title>By: Ike</title>
		<link>http://www.ideagrove.com/blog/2006/06/battle-of-the-spin-machines-coal-vs-nuclear.html/comment-page-1#comment-2090</link>
		<dc:creator>Ike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ideagrove.com/weblog/?p=1212#comment-2090</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s just say that I have several decades of scientific fear-mongering-that-didn&#039;t-pan-out on my side.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Yes, Earth is getting warmer.  It has since 1970.  From 1940-1970, Earth got cooler.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We&#039;re in an interglacial period, so we&#039;d be expected to get warmer, for whatever reason.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We&#039;re dealing with trends and forces that take tens of thousands of years to manifest.  We&#039;ve been measuring for a couple of hundred, and with extreme accuracy for about 25-30.  Geologically speaking, we&#039;ve caught a blip.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Are we too inefficient with our energy consumption?  You bet.  Internal combustion engines only average 7-percent efficiency.  (93% is radiated as heat through the engine block or the brakes.)  We can do a hell of a lot better.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now, for the clincher: do I think that mankind has (or can) permanently upset the balance of the planet in a mere 300 years?  No way.  Especially when you look at the progress we&#039;ve made in just the last 30 or so.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When you consider what that &quot;energy consumption&quot; has bought us in terms of understanding, production, innovation, achievement and progress.  Look at life expectancies, and look at what we&#039;re promising future generations with regards to opportunity.  I wouldn&#039;t trade that away to go back to 1730.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I mention 1730 for a reason.  That decade was marked with extrememly cold winters worldwide.  We have documentation from around the world, and tree-core samples that show how the biosphere was affected.  Scientists have dubbed this a mini-Ice age.  For the most part, we&#039;ve been trending upward since then -- and that predates the Industrial Revolution.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;See also:  Krakatoa.  One good volcano did more to the planet for a three-year stretch than any amount of smog-belching factories.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;SHORT FORM:  I agree with you in principle that we need to be more efficient with energy policy.  I disagree that we only have a few years to save the world.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The gigantic fallacy in Al Gore&#039;s polemic is stated in his title, &quot;Earth in the Balance.&quot;  We are NOT an Earth in balance at all.  We live on a planet that has demonstrated a wide range of chaos and flux and change over time, due to forces we can barely understand.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;To assume that the Earth has a &quot;balance&quot; is to assume that the &quot;now&quot; is the way it always was.  That today&#039;s Sahara was never underwater, that today&#039;s Everest was never beneath the crust, that today&#039;s French shoreline has always been populated by topless white women.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The &quot;fact&quot; that Gore wants to wave 900 studies in my face is impressive.  That they are all grounded in the premise of a stable Earth is not so impressive.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now, go fetch me some sensible CAFE standards, with a side of hydrogen fuel cell research.  I&#039;m hungry for some innovation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s just say that I have several decades of scientific fear-mongering-that-didn&#8217;t-pan-out on my side.</p>
<p>Yes, Earth is getting warmer.  It has since 1970.  From 1940-1970, Earth got cooler.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re in an interglacial period, so we&#8217;d be expected to get warmer, for whatever reason.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re dealing with trends and forces that take tens of thousands of years to manifest.  We&#8217;ve been measuring for a couple of hundred, and with extreme accuracy for about 25-30.  Geologically speaking, we&#8217;ve caught a blip.</p>
<p>Are we too inefficient with our energy consumption?  You bet.  Internal combustion engines only average 7-percent efficiency.  (93% is radiated as heat through the engine block or the brakes.)  We can do a hell of a lot better.</p>
<p>Now, for the clincher: do I think that mankind has (or can) permanently upset the balance of the planet in a mere 300 years?  No way.  Especially when you look at the progress we&#8217;ve made in just the last 30 or so.</p>
<p>When you consider what that &#8220;energy consumption&#8221; has bought us in terms of understanding, production, innovation, achievement and progress.  Look at life expectancies, and look at what we&#8217;re promising future generations with regards to opportunity.  I wouldn&#8217;t trade that away to go back to 1730.</p>
<p>I mention 1730 for a reason.  That decade was marked with extrememly cold winters worldwide.  We have documentation from around the world, and tree-core samples that show how the biosphere was affected.  Scientists have dubbed this a mini-Ice age.  For the most part, we&#8217;ve been trending upward since then &#8212; and that predates the Industrial Revolution.</p>
<p>See also:  Krakatoa.  One good volcano did more to the planet for a three-year stretch than any amount of smog-belching factories.</p>
<p>SHORT FORM:  I agree with you in principle that we need to be more efficient with energy policy.  I disagree that we only have a few years to save the world.</p>
<p>The gigantic fallacy in Al Gore&#8217;s polemic is stated in his title, &#8220;Earth in the Balance.&#8221;  We are NOT an Earth in balance at all.  We live on a planet that has demonstrated a wide range of chaos and flux and change over time, due to forces we can barely understand.</p>
<p>To assume that the Earth has a &#8220;balance&#8221; is to assume that the &#8220;now&#8221; is the way it always was.  That today&#8217;s Sahara was never underwater, that today&#8217;s Everest was never beneath the crust, that today&#8217;s French shoreline has always been populated by topless white women.</p>
<p>The &#8220;fact&#8221; that Gore wants to wave 900 studies in my face is impressive.  That they are all grounded in the premise of a stable Earth is not so impressive.</p>
<p>Now, go fetch me some sensible CAFE standards, with a side of hydrogen fuel cell research.  I&#8217;m hungry for some innovation.</p>
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		<title>By: SB</title>
		<link>http://www.ideagrove.com/blog/2006/06/battle-of-the-spin-machines-coal-vs-nuclear.html/comment-page-1#comment-2073</link>
		<dc:creator>SB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ideagrove.com/weblog/?p=1212#comment-2073</guid>
		<description>I agree with your general point.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In this instance, however, I was referring to the fact that in your comments on other posts, you have suggested that you don&#039;t believe that global warming is a real problem that we have to deal with -- but rather, an invention of self-interested scientists.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If I was reading your comments correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your general point.</p>
<p>In this instance, however, I was referring to the fact that in your comments on other posts, you have suggested that you don&#8217;t believe that global warming is a real problem that we have to deal with &#8212; but rather, an invention of self-interested scientists.</p>
<p>If I was reading your comments correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: Ike</title>
		<link>http://www.ideagrove.com/blog/2006/06/battle-of-the-spin-machines-coal-vs-nuclear.html/comment-page-1#comment-2072</link>
		<dc:creator>Ike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ideagrove.com/weblog/?p=1212#comment-2072</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re not the only one on that middle ground thing.  It&#039;s one of the worst features of highly-fractured partisan polarization.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The assumption used to be that if someone had a different policy idea than yours, you gave him the benefit of the doubt and asked for a clarification of goals.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Then it changed to &quot;If his policy is different than mine, I assume the worst possible intention on his part and proceed.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now it&#039;s &quot;any policy different than mine is not only wrong, but it is wrong for the most evil and selfish of reasons.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is the new climate of communications, and one that all PR/Marketing types need to steer cleanly through.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Scott, when you tell me that you&#039;re for the Kyoto treaty, it&#039;s not right for me to assume that you&#039;re a closet socialist who wants to use it as a crutch to cripple an evil capitalist free-market economy.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Neither is it right for you to assume that my defense of Big-Oil profit margins is ipso facto proof that I am on the take from ExxonMobil.  (Hell, if I was, don&#039;t you think I could afford a snazzier blog template?)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sadly, we&#039;ve all fallen prey to the urge to jump to conclusions about others&#039; motives.  Mea culpa.  Tu culpa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not the only one on that middle ground thing.  It&#8217;s one of the worst features of highly-fractured partisan polarization.</p>
<p>The assumption used to be that if someone had a different policy idea than yours, you gave him the benefit of the doubt and asked for a clarification of goals.</p>
<p>Then it changed to &#8220;If his policy is different than mine, I assume the worst possible intention on his part and proceed.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now it&#8217;s &#8220;any policy different than mine is not only wrong, but it is wrong for the most evil and selfish of reasons.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the new climate of communications, and one that all PR/Marketing types need to steer cleanly through.</p>
<p>Scott, when you tell me that you&#8217;re for the Kyoto treaty, it&#8217;s not right for me to assume that you&#8217;re a closet socialist who wants to use it as a crutch to cripple an evil capitalist free-market economy.</p>
<p>Neither is it right for you to assume that my defense of Big-Oil profit margins is ipso facto proof that I am on the take from ExxonMobil.  (Hell, if I was, don&#8217;t you think I could afford a snazzier blog template?)</p>
<p>Sadly, we&#8217;ve all fallen prey to the urge to jump to conclusions about others&#8217; motives.  Mea culpa.  Tu culpa.</p>
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